The Culture Nerds - A Leadership Podcast
Want to constantly grow as a leader and shape a great culture in your workplace? This is the podcast for you.
Of course, if you’re a yoghurt fan who typed in ‘culture’ and ended up here …(sorry, nerdy workplace culture joke). If you’re a serious person who believes serious topics must be covered in a serious way, we may not be the petri dish for you either.
But, if you want lived executive experience and decades working with corporate clients, government agencies & NFPs, all topped off by the hilarious hosts (at least we think so!), welcome - we're glad you could join us!
We nerd out on leadership and workplace culture – which is why we’re good at them. We tackle the topics you need to develop as a leader and to transform the workplace culture you have into the workplace culture you want. And we have fun doing it.
Hard hitting topics. Easy listening.
The Culture Nerds - A Leadership Podcast
The Role Values Play in your Organisation
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The Role Values Play in your Organisation.
How often do you revisit and refine your company's core values? In this milestone episode, we promise you'll discover the transformative power of regularly reassessing your organisational values to bridge the gap between current and desired cultural states. Learn why reevaluating your values every 18 months to two years is critical to maintaining alignment with your evolving organisational aspirations.
Join us as we explore the role of company values in fostering accountability within teams. Hear the inspiring story of a young Practice Manager who united her team around the principles of respect and dignity, demonstrating the tangible impact of clear, shared values on guiding behaviour and resolving underlying issues. Discover why promoting open, honest conversations and ensuring values apply equally to everyone, regardless of their position, can create an environment where team members feel empowered to speak up. This episode is packed with practical insights and real-world examples that showcase the power of values in cultivating a thriving workplace culture. Tune in and be inspired to transform your organisation!
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Thanks to our Podcasting producer, Josh at Deadset Podcasting for all his work behind the scenes.
Thanks for listening!
Hey listeners, it's Kiralee here, can you believe? We have been podcasting now for over two and a half years. Over that time, we've had some really fantastic chats with other leaders. Simon has had a rant or two. We've discussed leadership topics that are relevant to the current news. We've had a couple of name changes. Now we even have a podcast producer.
Speaker 1:Shout out to Josh. Thank you for all that you do for us. But most of all, we have had so much fun bringing you our podcast on a topic that we love culture and leadership so we wanted to mix things up a little. So we have dug deep into the archives of the show to find the best tips, tricks and conversations from the past two and a half years of discussions that we've had around culture and leadership. Essentially, we've gone back and found the gold. So you don't have to. If you listen to any of these bite-sized episodes that are coming up over the next few weeks and you would like the full episode, you can follow along over at reallearningcomau, where you'll find not only the full podcast catalogue but also loads of super helpful blog posts and other resources that every aspiring culture nerd needs. Now we won't hold you up anymore here at the start.
Speaker 2:Let's jump into the podcast Before we get into today's episode we want to acknowledge the privilege of living and working on Aboriginal land and we pay our respects to the Elders, past, present and emerging. You're quite right that past episodes we've talked about what an ideal culture is. We've talked about some early moves in defining that, and today we're going to talk about the values process. Now, values are critical for an ideal culture for two reasons, as we touched on in the previous episode. The first reason is that they help you define what that old ideal culture might look like. So one of the tools to understand what your ideal culture is is to reflect on the values.
Speaker 2:Whether you're living those values or not, at some stage they were an aspiration of the organisation. They were something that you felt was important. Probably and the reason I say probably is related to a point we'll make later in the episode Assuming that they were relevant, they defined the way you wanted to conduct yourselves at that time. So the question becomes are they still relevant? Do they still represent the ideal culture you want to have now, or are they outdated and do they need to be revisited Now?
Speaker 2:The second critical part of values is that, once you know what your ideal culture is and once you've done some assessment of your actual culture. Values are critical. I believe they are the first step and I believe they're an incredibly powerful step if they're done genuinely in bridging the gap between your ideal culture and the one you actually have right now. The reason there's a gap for organisations in their culture between reality and ideal, is because what the organisation does is aligned with the culture we have today and not with the culture we want to have. So one of the most critical ways to communicate the culture we want to have is through the values, but they actually become a tool to keep us on track, a compass, if you like.
Speaker 1:So, whether an organisation has values or has yet to define them, how do they help?
Speaker 2:So a big challenge is for organisations to communicate to its members exactly what the ideal culture looks like. So we can talk in general concepts about. We want a really healthy culture. We want a culture where people value each other. We want a culture that supports people. But what does that mean? How do I make a choice each day to either align or misalign with that? How do I know if I'm on track? So the bigger the organisation, the harder it is to communicate that message to the team. So now an even bigger challenge, as I mentioned, is saying okay, what does that represent in day-to-day choices and decisions that I can make?
Speaker 2:A culture really for us at a very practical level is the sum of all the decisions made by all the people every day in the organisations micro decisions. So values are really powerful in shaping that. So, for example, if in our ideal culture we'll treat each other with respect, then we can have a conversation about whether a certain interaction was respectful. We can resolve a difference by using that value. Now, a little bit later on, we'll talk about how some explanation around the value will also help people make good decisions. So I guess values are a way of decoding the ideal culture and stating it in plain, expectations about the way people should interact in the workplace.
Speaker 1:Do you have any advice for an organisation who are perhaps in the process of setting or even redefining their values?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I'll start this by saying if you have values that haven't been looked at and examined for relevance to the organisation and its people for more than 18 months or two years, it's time to get them out and have a robust discussion. Are these still representative of the culture we're trying to create? Because these are the beacons you're providing people to say we want to head in this direction. Well, if they head in that direction, is that going to create the culture you want, if not time to refine them? So one of the ground rules in values is they work better when they're set by all team members, not imposed on them, and I've had countless robust debates with senior executive teams and with boards who wanted to find the values for their organisation and then tell people what they are. And if you think about it, values to a large degree represent the way we want to be treated and the way we want to treat others in the community that makes up our workplace. Now, if you're not actively in that community every day or regularly, then should you be defining values, and that's the message to boards. They come in, they sit, they do a great job, but they don't actively participate in that community day in day out. Should they have a role in setting values, or an equivalent, that define the way we deal with the external user, the customer, the client, whatever you call them in your organization? Absolutely, because they need to manage that reputational risk and that directly impacts the success of the organisation with the external user. But when it comes to the way internal members of the organisation interact, then I don't think a board has any role at all.
Speaker 2:Senior executives, you might have some strong ideas, but if you impose those on people then they won't buy in. And what we find inevitably when organizations consult their people about what values should look like and what values are important to them, there's not always a lot of shocks. So very often the team members come up with things that are very closely aligned with what the executives would have come up with themselves. Very often they take it beyond what the executives would have seen. It's the people saying this is what's important to us in making this a community I want to come to work in each day, be proud to work in and be happy. So that's the first thing, and you've had personal experience of that, kiralee, in helping clients set values as well.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and it's the difference. That process is the difference between whether your values are pretty plaque that hangs on your boardroom wall and ends up in people's drawers, or whether your values are embedded and lived and breathed by everybody every day.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, because if someone feels like this is another thing that's imposed on me, they're happy with that. When it's this is the work you need to do. When I say they're happy with that, sometimes they're not, but they understand that's the nature of organizations. This is the work you need to do and you do it over there and you do it with those people, et cetera. That's fine. But when it comes to values and holding ourselves to a really high standard of conduct, we can't impose that in the same way Before we move on.
Speaker 2:The other thing is that values are both a right and an obligation.
Speaker 2:So what it really means is that values define I can come to work and I have a right to be treated in a certain way, but with that comes an obligation to treat others in that way, and that's part of making the values lived, that they are represented in everyday behavior and they're used as part of everyday conversations.
Speaker 2:So if, if a leader is talking to two team members who have some sort of conflict and the values are used to help them find a resolution in a coaching sense so, for example, I know that you two have got an issue here Using the values how do you think you should go about solving it. So not only are we coaching them, we're also getting them to solve their own problems, but we're also reinforcing the to solve their own problems, but we're also reinforcing the values and taking them off that plaque and embedding them in everyday behavior absolutely, and that's often something we see a lot with our clients is those robust, sometimes difficult conversations and not knowing how to navigate your way through those conversations for people who may be a little bit more non-confrontational than others.
Speaker 1:And having those values as a tool is a roadmap to have those discussions and have those positive outcomes.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. A team member comes to you and says I don't know how to deal with this situation. Using the values as a benchmark is a great way to respond. To say, okay, let's look at the values using a benchmark is a great way to respond. To say, okay, let's look at the values using that framework. How should we react? And again, it's about embedding them in everyday behavior.
Speaker 2:Our values have to be reflected, and this is when we start to see alignment between what we think and do and say with the culture we want to have is when we embed them in everyday systems. So, for example, if one of our values is about being inclusive, but we have a lot of policies and processes that are unreasonable, barriers to flexible work arrangements, that value is not authentic. If we say we want to be, we want honest and open communication, and managers react defensively when people come to them with ideas or feedback, that value is not authentic. So we have to do some work on aligning those things. Now, there'll always be inconsistencies, but it's how we respond to those inconsistencies. Do we just dismiss them and go, oh, that's just the way it is, that's the way we've always been. Or do we say, no, that's not consistent with what we aspire to be, so we need to address it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, Simon. What advice would you give to a leader who is listening with us today, who wants to have values for their team, even though their organisation hasn't actually defined any values yet?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think this is really critical. Sometimes, some of our listeners will be in a position where they can go straight back to the executive and say I think we need to revisit our values or where we need to establish some values. Others will be in roles where they might not have that voice on the executive or maybe the executive isn't on the same message just yet but they want something within their team. Now, you don't want to create values within your team that conflict with organizational level stuff, but there's nothing wrong with defining values, some parameters, to say this is how we're going to work in this team, this is what I'm going to, this is my pledge to you as your leader, this is how I'm going to behave and this is what I'd really like to see in our team. What do you think? And again, it can be a consultative process. I've seen teams sit down, spend an hour, come up with a framework and that's how they work, and the analogy we used in the previous episodes around the pool is a great way to have that conversation.
Speaker 2:I've also seen managers or leaders of specific teams say, okay, well, I can't influence everything else but my vision for this team, and one lady that always springs to mind. She was a very young practice manager at a very large medical practice many, many staff and she sat down with her team and said what I want our team to represent is that I want everyone who walks through that door to be treated with respect and dignity. Is everyone okay with that? Does anyone have any thoughts? And the team fell in behind that. They all engaged with it because she consulted them and because it was a reasonable thing, and that then became a benchmark by which they judged their behaviour. So she was starting to define what she wanted the ideal culture within her team to be. She couldn't influence perhaps some of the other parts of the organisation.
Speaker 1:So just taking some initiative for what you're responsible for.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It's well, I can't control that, but what can I control? I can control this Great response and she runs a fabulous team.
Speaker 1:So do values ever create issues around expectations and behaviours.
Speaker 2:Yes, but they're great issues, so they actually create accountability, so they bring things above the surface. So I've had managers say, well, what if I ask someone to do something and one of our values is respect and they come to me and say I don't think that was respectful. The reality is the issue existed anyway. What the value did was help bring it above the surface and now there can be an honest conversation between the manager in which they might say, look, I've got a different perspective. I felt that I was asking you to do something reasonable and and the other person might be saying, yeah, no, I get that. But I felt that I was asking you to do something reasonable and the other person might be saying, yeah, no, I get that, but I felt like it was the way you asked A whole discussion that might never have happened. And the reality is, so many little issues get embedded they're the thorn in the paw because we never bring them above the line. There's an organisation I dealt with in the building industry. They had a big crew that went around building sites and there were two guys that hadn't spoken to each other for 15 years and it was all because one day one of them parked in the other one's spot. Now that's crazy. We've got to bring that stuff above the surface. So, yes, having values will actually prompt conversations, but they're not conversations about things that didn't exist. It's bringing stuff that existed above the surface. So what the reality is when we're looking at values, they have to apply, even when it isn't comfortable. We can't have some people get away with behaviors that are inconsistent, because that means the values aren't authentic. People lose faith. So we can't look at someone and say, oh, they've been here a long time, or they're a star performer, or they're really prickly and I'm really uncomfortable dealing with them, or they're the boss, so we can't hold them accountable rubbish. We've got to hold all of them accountable.
Speaker 2:One of our core beliefs here is we have hierarchy to manage work. So we have hierarchy, so people know who can make what decisions, who controls what. Who can ask various people to do various jobs, all that sort of stuff. Who can allocate things, that's really nice, but values are completely separate to that. Can ask various people to do various jobs, all that sort of stuff. Who can allocate things, that's really nice, but values are completely separate to that. They don't manage that control and manner and flow of work.
Speaker 2:They're all about managing the way we interact, and in that there is no hierarchy. In fact, our favorite saying on this is there's no rank and respect, and you could substitute that for whatever value you like. In other words, the most junior casual person who's been there for 10 minutes should be able to walk into the CEO and say listen, when we spoke earlier, I didn't feel that you treated me consistently with the values. Can we talk about that? And there's an onus on all of us to be honest in our conversations and respectful in our delivery. So, yeah, they'll raise some things, but they're things that needed to be raised anyway.
Speaker 1:And they also provide a support for people to be able to raise those things. It provides a platform for it to be brought up, but it also provides people with knowing that they're in an environment where they're supported by values that encourage them to be able to speak up and voice their opinions, be it positive or negative.
Speaker 2:One of the most powerful things I've ever seen in an organisation, in shaping culture, is having someone tell their manager, or tell someone more senior than them, that they have some concerns about an interaction based on the values, and for that conversation to be handled well by the more senior person, and it sends out this ripple effect that our values are real, they're genuine, whereas when they're seen to protect some people and hold others accountable based on rank or whatever, they're inauthentic. You might as well throw them in the bin. So you've got to live them by making them equal for everyone.