The Culture Nerds - A Leadership Podcast

🗨️ Authentic Conversations: New Years resolutions don't work. But coaching can make the difference

• Simon Thiessen & Kirralea Walkerden

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There is a strange dynamic about the end of one year and the start of the next. A disproportionate number of people spend time reflecting on where they are, and how that compares to where they want to be.

That's a great thing - and an opportunity for leaders - except that ... this often translates to new year's resolutions which have a deservedly bad reputation. 

91% of news resolutions don't even survive until mid January - which creates disillusionment and disappointment. 

So what's the opportunity in this for leaders? Whether you are thinking about your own growth for the coming year, or focusing on growing your people (you're doing both, right?) you know something critical. People, including you and your team, are in a reflective and growth oriented mindset - all you need to do is harness with these steps outlined by Kirralea. She uses them as a professional leadership coach - and you can apply them when you decide to add some coaching to your leadership style.

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Speaker 1:

Before we get into today's episode, we want to acknowledge the privilege of living and working on Aboriginal land and we pay our respects to the elders, past, present and emerging. Hello listeners, welcome to the Culture Nerds, our leadership podcast. I'm your host, kirilee Walkenon, and I welcome to the microphone my co-host and co-nerd, simon Tyson.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, kirilee, and we should have. You should have mentioned right up front that you are the lead host, as well as the biggest nerd.

Speaker 1:

Well, in the spirit of being nerds, would you like a fun fact to start off our podcast today?

Speaker 2:

Look, how can anyone say no to that?

Speaker 1:

Do you know what percentage of news resolutions fail within the first two weeks of January?

Speaker 2:

Look, I know that this is not officially a percentage, but I'm going to say also the question was how many fail? I thought you, yes, I was thinking how many succeed, and my answer was going to be in pure percentage terms bugger all. So I'm going to say that if the question is how many fail, I'm going to say most of them. Can I get away with that, or do I have to give you a number?

Speaker 1:

So a study that was done in the United States has shown that 91% of news resolutions fail within the first two weeks of January.

Speaker 2:

There you go, and we're recording this on the 8th of January. So you know, even if, even if that was on course, about 50% of failed already by the 8th of January, all those wonderful drunken intentions why is that, kierley? What happens?

Speaker 1:

I have a little bit of research behind this, but a little bit of my own thoughts and feelings. Of course, you do my own little nerdy thoughts and feelings. I think that a lot of people start with the greatest of intentions and whether they buy a journal or whether they decide they're going to sit down and plan for the year and we write down what we want to do and what we want to achieve and you know, whether that be I want to be fit, or I'm going to lose weight, or I'm going to achieve this in my career, or I want to be here at the end of the year.

Speaker 2:

Or you want to discipline at my job, or yeah?

Speaker 1:

That's exactly right, but it's because and this is where the research comes into it as well, as what I know to be true from when I coach people is that they there's not a plan and there's not realistic steps as to how to achieve them. It's I want to lose X amount of, or I want to, I want to lift 100 kilos, I want to be able to lift 100 kilos of weight, or I want to lose 10 kilos, or I want to run 25 kilometers in this marathon, and we go all right. I'm going for a run on the second of December and we just start running, and then on the third of December, we go oh.

Speaker 1:

I'm so sore. I don't want to go for a run about the seventh of December. Everything's hurting. I don't want to run anymore and we just give up because it becomes too hard and we just can't jump in the deep end and expect to be able to swim. Some people can, but majority of people can't, and that is because we don't have a plan and realistic steps to achieve them.

Speaker 2:

And I look, I think there's a little bit of this. I think there's some alcohol involved. So I think some people you know it is that stupid. They're on the, on the booze and they decide to commit to something over over terminated grog's and that doesn't survive a lot of day. They probably don't make it to midday in the first of January. I also think some of them are born of frustration, but with no inspiration. So it's, it's, I just it's a clutching at stores.

Speaker 2:

I think if there's a natural tendency for people, there's a symbolic full stop at the end of a year, isn't there? And there's no real full stop. It's, you know, there's. It's the next day is just the same as the previous one, there's no difference between those two days, more so than any other two days. But there's a symbolic full stop that makes people reflect and they might feel frustrated about where they're at and what they haven't done and what they, you know they would like to have done, but there's no real inspiration. They haven't really thought about, and I know something you can talk about in a while is the why. Why is this important to me? And so I just think they lack. They lack so many of the attributes of setting good goals and therefore achieving those goals because of the way they occur. That's again, I don't have the research you've got, but that's my gut feel and certainly my experience in some of my new use resolutions that haven't made it to February.

Speaker 1:

With this in mind, we thought that we would focus today's episode on creating a little bit of a roadmap for people, listeners, leaders out there who may want to create a goal for themselves, or if coaching and helping your team with goal setting is something that you know you want to concentrate on in 2024, then we are going to give you a roadmap, and this roadmap is largely based on what we use. It's based on what I definitely what I do, and I feel it's what you do as well, simon and what we use when we coach people. Their goal setting is what we use in our programs and obviously we go into a lot more detail when we facilitate the program. But it is the roadmap of what we use in our programs, what I use in my coaching programs, and it will give you a really good starting point of what you need to do and the plan and the strategy that you need to put around setting your goals or coaching someone to set their goals.

Speaker 2:

And look, leaders, if you're not doing this, then you're not really leading, because, managers, you can't just sit back and leave people to their own devices and give them a few tasks and hope they achieve it. Part of your responsibility as a leader is to facilitate growth in your team. A great measure of a leader is have your people grown, and they won't do that without that coaching, without that goal setting, without that feedback from you.

Speaker 1:

So and I'm going to defer a lot to you in this one, Carolie, because this is such an area of both passion and expertise for you- so, to begin with, we're going to concentrate and, I guess, talk about the importance of where we start and I want our listeners to think about if we are driving along in our car and we pop some directions into Google Maps before you started, of course, because none of us put our directions into Google Maps whilst we're driving. Footnote.

Speaker 2:

No one will do that, Carolie.

Speaker 1:

That's exactly right. We've put our directions in and we start driving and we're watching Google Maps trying to calibrate and get the map and their directions and work out where we're going, but it's not happening, it's just Going round in circles. You've got that thinking fine, coming up a little circle of dance.

Speaker 2:

You get on the yeah, that's just what is going on.

Speaker 1:

Just tell me where I need to go, and you know that you have to turn somewhere soon. So what do we do? We pull over. We pull over because google maps, in order to give us the direction of where we're going, needs to know where we're starting and be where we're going. And that is so important when we are setting goals. We need to know where we're starting and where we're going so that we can plan and put a strategy in, but also so, when we get there, we get the opportunity to reflect back and see on what we've achieved and how much we've grown.

Speaker 1:

And the same as if you are coaching someone. Such a vital part of this process is asking them the questions that gets them to reflect, and I did this very exercise. I had a coaching group of about twenty five people. We wrapped up a lot of those sessions before christmas and the question I asked a lot of them was you know, think about where you started earlier this year and think about where you are now with this call.

Speaker 1:

Think about what have you learned about yourself and what growth can you see you've had? And a lot of them haven't even given it a second thought, cuz I was so grounded in the now and what they're achieving and what that looks like they forgot about. You know how it felt at the start, when I felt they were so out of the depth and they didn't know where to go. When you know, how does this even look like? How do we even get there? So it's so important that we have that google maps metaphor inside ahead of stopping finding out where we are and finding out where we're going, cuz in the process.

Speaker 2:

I think that's the point is the pulling over bit. Yeah, one of the things that I'm fortunate, the people who are most likely to set goals are also the ones who are in such a hurry. They're so. They're so driven by the goal. I think the official word or the proper word is where teleological. We're so driven by that goal that we're reluctant to pull over because gosh will get stuck behind something else. Well, well, I might be on the wrong bloody highway, going in the wrong direction. I might be able to hit some road works I could have avoided if I'd listen to the maps, but was so driven to do it that we won't pull over. And I think disciplining ourselves To pull over is so important. So I'd love to talk here briefly about, about that looking back. But do you want me to do that now? Have you got something else you want to say?

Speaker 1:

first, I was. When we pull over and when we're sitting in in that space, it's a really good time for us to think about. You know, what do we want? And when I say that you know what do we really want, it's not what, what people think we should want, you know it's not, you know.

Speaker 1:

Everybody else is going to the gym, so I should go to the gym. Everyone else is, you know, setting Going to travel to europe, so I should travel to europe. What do you really want? Because if we set a goal that we are anchored to within ourselves and that doesn't challenge us, it's, it's where we're not doing our self-adjust to begin with, you know. So why do we want this goal?

Speaker 2:

and then, we need to start thinking about.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know what are we prepared yeah, what are we prepared to do together, you know, and what are we prepared to do other? Some things that we're just simply not prepared to do, and what does that mean in order to achieve it? Because if we start planning a goal and we come to realize that there is something that we're just not prepared to do, then is that really the goal that we need? And these are the things that we think about when we pull over and we just think this is where we are now. Where do we want to go? What does this look like? And there are three questions that I'll go through to help when we do this year and we got that little bit of time.

Speaker 2:

We do do the pull over thing, and that's probably why our mind turns to girls and years resolutions, because we have pulled over something that we probably should do throughout the year, not just at the end of the year. But yeah, I think we've nailed something there. We often say what do I want, but we don't say why. We don't ask why. Because we often want things for the wrong reasons or for poor reasons or for reasons that want sustain us throughout the year. So by asking the why, we can often eliminate those, those Pointlessly.

Speaker 2:

The eighty, did you say eighty, nine percent, that go, by the way ninety one ninety one, because they don't stand the test, they don't stand the pressure of it gets tough. And when it gets tough, if there's not a good why, we just buy that, yeah what. Why would I do something that's uncomfortable, or the sacrifice or whatever, if I don't really want it for the right reasons? So I think that's such an important tip and that's something I've definitely learned from you is to focus on the why as much as the what.

Speaker 1:

So working out where we are right now. I said that there's three questions that you need to ask, or, as a coach, you coach that person and you ask them and you work through. The first question is what are the significant achievements or positive moments that stand out for you in the past year? So this you really have to dig deep into this. So think about if it is. If you are thinking about a personal goal, then go through your camera roll or think about some you know holidays you went on or go back to your diary and have a look at things that have happened that were really good Achievements or positive moments.

Speaker 1:

If this is a career goal, go back through your calendar if you use it, if you use a calendar for work, all your monthly reporting, if the metrics are around you know sales goals or there's some kind of measured metrics that you report on. Go back through any staff meeting minutes or anything positive. So you really want to dig in and you want to create a list that you can really look at and see what did these significant achievements look like and you can start. That's when you start to think about you know, what do I do to get to those? How hard did I have to work? Or, you know, was there some that Perhaps maybe I had to pivot halfway through and think, you know, that wasn't working and if I hadn't done that then I wouldn't have been able to achieve that? So that's first step is you know what are the significant achievements or positive moments that stand out for you in the past year.

Speaker 2:

And I love that one because you know my philosophy that I believe all growth starts with this comfort or pain, and it's the could be the pain of the recognition that I'm not on track, which is quite uncomfortable because it's a bit painful for people to recognize that.

Speaker 2:

Or it could be setting a goal that all of a sudden creates a gap between where I am and where I want to be, and that's a bit uncomfortable, that creates a bit of urgency and a bit of agitation and that's really, really good. We've got to have that discomfort to inspire growth. But what you're saying is we've also got to look back, because to face that discomfort we've got to have the confidence and when we look back we actually recognize how far we've come, that we might not actually be standing at the bottom of the mountain, we might be two thirds of the way up and we're taking all these little steps and we've got this proven track record of achieving things, of dealing with obstacles. So really, what we're doing in the next year is a continuation of taking small steps in succeeding, rather than taking on something we've never taken on before.

Speaker 1:

And your comments about discomfort lead me into the second question that we asked, which is what are the challenges that you've faced in the past year? So when our goals are formed with something that we find puts us in a place of discomfort, or something that we have been challenged by or struggled with, our goals take a new level of meaning. It also means that when something matters to us, that we're more likely to do something about it. If something doesn't really matter to us, we lack that motivation in order to make that change. So this is why digging into our challenges really helps in this step, because our challenges are always trying to teach us something we need to really look into and leaning to. And it's really hard to lean into because it's uncomfortable.

Speaker 1:

And sometimes, if you are someone that is a someone that likes to achieve and likes to take big steps forward, it really highlights an area that you don't like to step into. I know that for me. Sometimes that's a struggle for me, but when we start to flip the way we look at challenges and we think A challenge is trying to teach us something. What do I need to learn here? What can I take from this? We start to view them in a different way. So think about what are the challenges you faced in the past year, what Perhaps Might have worked up into a point and then didn't, and why is that? You know what hasn't landed, what do you know could have been done a different way or a more effective way?

Speaker 2:

so, really leaning to that, I'm just visualising a manager sitting having this conversation with a team member. What wonderful questions to ask them. I it's and, and and leaders. Honestly, how often do you have this conversations with your people? Do you get caught up on how many widgets we need to produce or logistical task based stuff? What do you actually have some of these conversations? Because those task based discussions will get you through today but one group people for tomorrow.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely this is a lot of you are, and if you are someone that is coaching one of your team members and you ask Particularly this question, what were the challenges you faced? I challenge you to ask could I have supported you any better? What could I? Could I have done anything to help or assist or change the outcome?

Speaker 1:

Yeah leaning to. Could you have been a better leader in that moment? And this may open your eyes into a way that you can lead your people that you have never even thought of before. And we have a saying within our company salmon. Do you want to talk about that?

Speaker 2:

I think I know where you're heading, but at first I was gonna say you starting 2024 by telling our leaders they're not perfect, the. I think the phrase that you're referring to is that whenever something doesn't go as we would like it to, as we expected to, as we feel it should, the first question that great leaders ask themselves is what was the failure of leadership? And failure sounds like a really harsh word. What we tend to do is we look for failure. We just look for the people around us and go why aren't they adequate? Why couldn't they do it? What? Perhaps it's something to do with the leadership style they're exposed to, the workplace culture they're exposed to, and potentially it's within our power to tweak those things and help that person get a better result.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So it's just an opportunity for good leaders to become great leaders, great leaders to become exceptional leaders. If they're asking this question, when the whenever the opportunity arises for us to be able to get some feedback from our team members, we should always embrace it and ask it. The third question that we ask what we are sitting in this, where are we right now, is reflecting on the last year. What insight or valuable lessons did you learn about yourself? Now, these? This is an important question as well, because it forces that reflection on us of where, if we think about where, have we grown? What have we learned?

Speaker 1:

And if you again, if you're a leader, our manager, if you're coaching a person, this could be an opportunity to give them some feedback of some insights or, you know, some growth that you've seen them have, because this will be really challenging for people.

Speaker 1:

This can be a hard question for people to look back on and be able to honestly answer it. So, as a leader, this is where we become. That you later, so to speak, and be able to give them some feedback and say this is, I think that you've really grown in this area. I think you know I can set some really great lessons. I saw you learn what this is in this and help them along, because it's that Feedback versus reflection. The only way that we can get inside is is internally or externally. We can have that reflection of ourselves, but also we can get that feedback from someone else, and so this is a really great opportunity for leaders and because we've asked that question for we're not just giving feedback we've asked in the previous question. So then we're growing that relationship of free flowing feedback through the relationship that we have with our staff members and our team members.

Speaker 2:

I can't remember where I saw it and I think you showed it to me somewhere. But over the Christmas break or just before, that graphic of a leader encouraging someone out into the high wire, the, the, the type right onto the high wire, and the message was I'll get you to walk the high wire, but I'll be the one below with the net.

Speaker 1:

That was a previous podcast that Sarah Sarah said that's how she prefers to lead.

Speaker 2:

It was exactly. That's exactly right, and you've always told me I've got to do better at tying the previous podcast, so there I go. That was one of my new years.

Speaker 1:

Yes, we'll drop a link to that podcast in the show notes for anyone wanting to know. But yes, that was Sarah describing her late. She's a senior leader within the Mars Company and that was her describing what her leadership style was is that she encourages them to walk the tightrope while she's underneath, letting them know that she's there. If they fall, she'll catch them, she'll help them get back up, that she's behind them to do it is going to ask them to step out there and grow.

Speaker 1:

So by taking the insight that you're gaining from asking these three questions, or the insight that the person that you're coaching is gaining from these three questions, we start to think about what our goals can be, and that is because these these questions really make us concentrate on exactly what we want, or making it a little bit simpler. So once you've had that discussion or you've written all this I always get whether I'm coaching someone or whether I'm doing this myself I always write it down, because it's really helpful to be able to go back through and see what you've written down, to be able to piece together what we think our goals Can be. So then we can start to think about okay, so what is our goal? Now that we know what, what our achievements have been, what our challenges have been, and you know where we've really grown, you know what are some areas where perhaps we'd like to grow, what are some areas where we can really take those challenges and lean into them and and start to grow in those areas of becoming more comfortable with those. What are some of the things that we've achieved that we could perhaps take the next steps in and take that to the next level, now that we've achieved it to the level that we have, and when you start to think about what that looks like, there's some questions that you can ask yourself, which are you know the why, which Simon spoke about before, and this is so important. Why do you want to achieve this goal? And the why can't be because it will help me with my job, or because it'll feel good, or because you know I'll be able to tell everyone that I can do it. You have to have a reason that really anchors you to that why, and I will always. I'll sometimes go back to people five or six times. I have a template that my coaching counterparts fill out and I will go back to them so many times and go keep working on the why, keep working on the why. That why needs to show me who you are. You know that that is an insight into who you're going to be when you're carrying out this goal. So really dig deep and don't don't make that why superficial.

Speaker 1:

Another thing to think about is what will it look like when your goal is achieved? What might get in the way of achieving the goal? And when you think about those obstacles that might get in the way, what are you going to do. How will you overcome them when they happen, if we know that these are obstacles that are going to happen? Let's start planning. When this happens, I will do this. Or when this happens, I'll involve this person. Or when this happens, I need to start doing this.

Speaker 1:

What needs to change? We talk a lot about and anyone that's listened to this podcast for a long period of time will know we talk about the things that we do say. Think and decide what needs to change in what you do say, think and decide now in order to achieve that goal. Think about what do you do, what do you say, what do you think? What do you say? What needs to change? And we need to be prepared to change these things, because that's the only way we take those steps towards our goal.

Speaker 1:

One incredibly important thing who will hold me accountable to this goal? Without someone to hold you accountable and someone to check in, we can sell ourselves short. You need to pick someone that you know will just ask you and you might give them a copy of all your notes and ramblings, whatever you're comfortable with. Pick someone that you're comfortable with and say I want you to check in with me every two weeks. I want you to check in with me once a month when I'm coaching someone. We'll have a discussion at the end of our session about what the next period looks like before our next session, and what they're going to work on and what that looks like and what challenges they're going to face, and then that's the questions I asked them when we come back. How did that go? They know I'm going to ask them those questions.

Speaker 1:

So they know they're making the choice of either saying I didn't do that or yes, this is what we did. And so then that becomes the basis for our next questions how did it go? How did it land? What did you learn in the process? All those things that help by having someone that will hold you accountable and that someone. So if you're coaching someone, you should be that person.

Speaker 1:

I feel, If the person you're coaching is comfortable, you say are you happy for me to check back in with you every two weeks, every four weeks? If you're writing this goal for yourself, then find someone that you know will hold you accountable and find someone that you know will have an honest conversation with you, not someone that's just going to be a little bit shallow and go how are you going? Yep, no worries. Find someone that will challenge you. If you say I didn't do that, why that person needs to ask you those uncomfortable questions so that we're moving away from that comfort zone? How do we move from A to B when we don't want to leave A? We make A uncomfortable and move to B. So you need someone that's going to ask those questions that's going to make where you are uncomfortable, that you know you're going to start that action.

Speaker 2:

And we do that for each other, don't we? We set some goals for the business. We met in December, sat down, set some goals, talked about what that would look like in terms of action, and we've got a process of checking in with each other to say are we doing those things? And that's uncomfortable. I actually find it more uncomfortable telling you I haven't done something Because you already know you haven't done something. But I hate the idea of saying to you actually I didn't get that one done Because that's a commitment I made. So it's a great tip Well done.

Speaker 1:

And also that goes pretty much hand in hand with the person told you accountable is when do you want to achieve this goal by. So this can be something that you might set yourself in three months, six months, 12 months, depending on how big the goal is, how many steps you break that down into, what that looks like or the period of time you need to achieve that. But there needs to be some kind of end date of going. You know this is when I want to achieve it by, so that person can also hold you accountable to knowing you know we're here now. What does that look like? You know the question you asked what does it look like when the goal is achieved? And some people achieve that goal earlier than that date. And that's a wing, you know, doesn't mean that you fail if you don't achieve it to that date. But how good does it feel if you set yourself a goal of 12 months and you know that that goal's put you outside your comfort zone and you look by the process of reflection and go, hang on a minute, I'm here already. So this is why it's really important to have those three questions what are the significant achievements or positive moments, what are the challenges and what are the insider valuable lessons that you have learned? So that's the thought over the past 12 months.

Speaker 1:

Once we have that and we've answered that and we've worked out what our goal is, what does our goal, or goals, look like? We can move on to question four, five and six, which is about doing more of what is working and less of what's not working, because often we over complicate things, we make things so much harder in the process and it just makes it over complicated. We have, we have, which I'll drop the links to previous episodes. This is a process that we're using goal setting. We use it in our programs. We've had previous podcast episodes about this, but it's also what I will do with my coaching counterparts. Once we set a goal, it's called stop, start and continue and it's a really simple way yeah.

Speaker 1:

It's a really simple way to put some really effective processes behind and some strategy behind your goals and to get some good wins on the board. So stop. What are the things that you're going to stop doing in order to achieve your goal?

Speaker 1:

So what's not working, what's not helping, that's right what's not working, and stopping doing something can bring great transformation to you, and sometimes it can be more effective to stop doing something than beginning to do something new. Sometimes you might realise, in this process of thinking about what I can stop doing but actually stopping doing that I'm going to take. This is going to progress a lot quicker than the way it was. So what are the things that I can stop doing? The next, what are the things I can start doing? So, when you think about starting, it can be starting something new, but it can also be starting something that you used to do, something that you knew worked, but for some, for one reason or another, that you stop doing.

Speaker 1:

It Might be something that worked well previously that you can start to commit to doing again, or it might be something that scares the absolute hell out of you because it's so far out of your comfort zone, but you know that's what you need to do in order to progress closer, closer towards your goal. So what can you start doing? And the last one is continue. What are you going to continue doing? So, when you take the time to answer this question, you realize that what are you already doing that is contributing to your goal and what is working for you. And this is where you said before, simon, you might work out by Reflecting that you are halfway up the mountain or three quarters up the mountain, and so you know this is working for me. I'm going to continue to do this.

Speaker 2:

You've got a track record of doing things that have been helping you forward and we don't see it if we look at the last little step we took, because often the steps are so small. But if we look back and we realize how far all those steps together have taken as that's when we see that we're making that progress and so there's bound to be some continues there if you can't see any continues, then you're judging yourself harshly. Normally, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So when you think about, I set my goal and I need to put a plan and strategy into place. It doesn't have to be this long-winded document that details month by month what you're going to do.

Speaker 2:

I don't want to set 28 year goals and break them down to 40. No, you can if you want that progress. Yeah, that was what was shown to me years ago, and guess what it did for me? It put me off goal setting. Yeah, for a while I just avoided it all together until I realized it could just be so much simpler. It could just be. Why complicated so much?

Speaker 1:

and Part of that accountability Check-in is going over these stop-start and continues. What can you stop doing? What can you start doing? What are you continuing to do? These form part of the questions of when the goal was set, and and this makes it so much easier if you don't have to plan out month by month what this goal looks like. You might, you might have one goal, you might have three goals, when you know that you can just choose a stop-start and continue and you start Reflecting over these and you might get six months in and go. You know what this start is really working for me. I'm going to switch that up to something else. I don't feel I've achieved the goal, but this start is working for me. I think that I can progress this goal quicker if I think about a different start that can be there. This.

Speaker 2:

Can be and that's exactly right.

Speaker 1:

This is part of what a Lot of my coaching counterparts Realized halfway through their coaching program was that what was discomfort became habit, and so then they could start to put themselves back into a place of discomfort, because those stop-start and continues that they had chosen to do especially the stop and the start, because sometimes they were things that they were Usepore, a lot of the time, though, things about what you have it really doing they'd formed new habits that was just becoming second nature to them, and so they're no longer needed that Reminder, and so they could then introduce some new things that put them outside of their comfort zone and progress them a lot quicker Towards their goal.

Speaker 1:

So don't be afraid of once. We feel like that's becoming a habit. But the only way we know it's become a habit is if we reflect back to where we start. Look back to where you start and say to yourself you know, that was, that was my. You know your discomfort might be having some really honest Conversations with your staff members. I'm in a really embrace honest conversations. I'm not going to shy away from it, I'm going to really lean into that. And so then you're going to put some what am I going to start stopping, continue doing in grants to this? You might get six months in, and this was About five or six of my coaching counterparts that needed to do this. They said you know, I just they're just conversations. Now We've had so many of them that I don't feel uncomfortable anymore and I said this is what it's all about. You know, this is and this is where I become a real nerd. Hence the name of the pod, the new name of the podcast, starts to radiate out of me.

Speaker 2:

I wouldn't say being a nerd is one of your starts, it's more one of your continues.

Speaker 1:

But this is what it's about. It's about when you anki yourself to a goal that you really want to change and you lean into it and you embrace being uncomfortable and you commit to doing these things regularly. Yeah, it will become a new habit that you form and you will lean more into it and you look back and you go hang on a minute. I remember a time where that made me so uncomfortable and look now like I just don't give it a second thought, and that's what a lot of them said. You know I what really made me think and overanalyze situations. I now don't even give it a second thought, and so this is why this process I can tell anyone listening to here this process will work. If you give it the time and really debrief down, reflect, work out what's going, you stop starting, continue, push yourself outside your comfort zone, you will have success.

Speaker 2:

Can I, as we sort of move towards wrapping up, share three things with the listeners that I've learned from you about Not about being a professional coach, about being a leader who coaches. And there is a difference. You know, you don't have to be a professional coach, but you can't be a leader without coaching. So, but to be a leader as a coach, I'd love to share three things I've learned from you go for it and.

Speaker 2:

And and they're all about because I know a lot of our listeners out there will be things and I work with them. How can I be more like early? How can I and they don't mean how can I be as nerdy as Kirillie? They mean how can I be a comfortable, confident coach like Kirillie is? And I think there's three things you do amazingly well and one of them is you just ask questions. And the number one thing that that Determines whether you're coaching or not is whether you're asking questions. And if our listeners went back and listen to this again and Try to count the number of questions that you've proposed in this episode, they'd lose count. There are hundreds in there and we're only 37 minutes or that's 37 minutes minus errors Into the episode, yet there's hundreds of questions. So the first one is just ask questions, and and the more you ask questions, the better you'll get at asking questions, the the better quality of the questions. The second thing is you don't mind listening, and the phrase you often use is sit with uncomfortable, let the silence stretch, and I noticed even as you are asking some of those questions, you paused slightly longer than was comfortable in a podcast and I'll bet our listeners got a bit twitchy in that moment. Well, that's what's happened. Is that happens as a leader, when you ask someone a question and they don't respond immediately, and of course your instinct is to fix it, to save the situation, and jump in and keep talking and in that moment you kill the coaching, so you kill that opportunity for them to really reflect, you take the the emphasis away from them To need to come up with and and a considered response. So ask great questions, or ask lots of questions, and they will become great because you will just practice it. Be prepared to sit with silence.

Speaker 2:

And the third thing I've learned from you is don't accept superficial. So very often in that first question, people will give you superficial answers. Yeah, you will never allow that. You'll always ask a follow-up question and maybe many follow-up questions that dig beneath that surface. Um, don't, don't fall for that instinct of I've asked a question, now I can move on. Oh, survive that uncomfortable moment.

Speaker 2:

You really haven't achieved what you set out to achieve. Um, yes, you can tick a box, but is that what you're there for? So, ask the follow-up questions that get them to examine that further. You know what would you like to do this year in your work and may you might get a certain superficial answer.

Speaker 2:

I just like to, you know, really achieve a lot, and obviously that's really vague, yeah, great, but what does that look like? Oh, you know, I'd like to, I'd like to grow, I'd like to fantastic, great goal I. But when you say you'd like to grow, what would you like to grow, and it's all those follow up questions and digging in that leads to a really genuine conversation. So there are the three things I've learned from you about being a leader who coaches, ask a lot of questions and get good at them, because you will, if you ask a lot, sit with uncomfortable, don't be scared of silence and don't settle for superficial. Ask questions to follow up the questions you've already asked, until you get down deep enough, and that might happen, by the way, over a series of conversations.

Speaker 1:

Or even you could. My suggestion would be to even create some kind of document or template that asks those questions, because some people may need some time to go away and think about it. So for me, what I find works well is I'll have a discussion about those questions, but then I'll let the person I'm coaching go away and think about it and get them to email it through to me. But I'm not 100% what Simon said. Sometimes I feel like I'm a teacher marking papers because I just go through with some red text, or if I'm on my own with my pen and I go through and I will say you know why do you do this?

Speaker 1:

And I won't be afraid sometimes, like I said when I was talking before there was sometimes I went back four or five times to people I've coached and said but why just dig deeper, reflect more? Why is this important? What does this look like? Because people will naturally go superficial or go a not necessarily superficial, I don't really like that word. Now that I've said it, sometimes people will choose an answer within their comfort zone.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And they'll give you that answer because that's really comfortable, that doesn't really stretch me and if you ask me about that, yep, I'm okay to talk about that and I'll go. No, no, no, no, no, this is too safe, we need to. As a coach, my goal is to get them outside of their comfort zone, but have them feel supported while they're there.

Speaker 2:

So I think you've just hit on the fourth tip, that and I said there were only three, but you know what I'm never done. The fourth tip and this only occurred to me as you were speaking in you get away with the questions, you get away with the silence, you get away with the probing and the follow up questions because of number four and that's because you genuinely care. So when someone's been coached by you, it's not I'm doing this because it's my job. I'm doing this because I care.

Speaker 1:

I'm doing this because I'm really invested in you getting great doing this because I'm a culture nerd and a leadership nerd and I want to see you win.

Speaker 2:

And winning for you is not the number one.

Speaker 2:

It's about them developing in the way that they capable of developing later to their heart, but to try and get that as a commitment and so the absolute investment you've got. That's why you get away with it, leaders. If you don't give a shit and you try and try and use this approach, it's going to be hard to make it land, because it's a clinical thing. It's not, you're not part and notice. Kira Lee has talked about coaching counterparts. It's a relationship that you're entering into with someone when you're coaching them. It's a relationship of great trust. It's a relationship where you're going to make them uncomfortable and they have to feel safe enough to give you permission to do that, and that can only happen when they know that you genuinely care, and that's why you're asking these challenging questions.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, we will turn these show notes into a short blog. Simon's looking at me now because we will do that, so it'll have just a brief outline of what this looks like, so that if you, and our next episode will be on delegation, from the sound of it.

Speaker 1:

No, we will turn this into a brief blog post, just so you have this audio version, but there's also a little bit of a roadmap in the blog to follow. But if you have any questions or if you are wanting to implement this, then there's a part of it that you're perhaps stuck on or would like to just brainstorm a little bit. By all means, reach out to us via our website, reallearningcomau, via the Contact Us page, and we would be happy to chat to you.

Speaker 2:

And, while you're there, check out our events page, because we've got some amazing events, many of them free. It's not all of them, but many of them free, including our Plenty in 20 series, which is now on demand. So when you sign up for that, every month for six months, you get notified of the next release and if you love them a lot, then you can sign up for the next six months as well. But they're 100% free and a great way to experience what we offer.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely Well. The first, the Culture Nerds Leadership podcast, is done.

Speaker 2:

And just as a little bit of a shout out to our former name until we see you next time, stay authentic. How dirty is that?

Speaker 1:

Come and see the real thing, come in, see the real thing, come and see.