The Culture Nerds - A Leadership Podcast
Want to constantly grow as a leader and shape a great culture in your workplace? This is the podcast for you.
Of course, if you’re a yoghurt fan who typed in ‘culture’ and ended up here …(sorry, nerdy workplace culture joke). If you’re a serious person who believes serious topics must be covered in a serious way, we may not be the petri dish for you either.
But, if you want lived executive experience and decades working with corporate clients, government agencies & NFPs, all topped off by the hilarious hosts (at least we think so!), welcome - we're glad you could join us!
We nerd out on leadership and workplace culture – which is why we’re good at them. We tackle the topics you need to develop as a leader and to transform the workplace culture you have into the workplace culture you want. And we have fun doing it.
Hard hitting topics. Easy listening.
The Culture Nerds - A Leadership Podcast
🗨️ Authentic Conversations: Are you - and your team - excited about returning to work? Or dreading it?
We would love your feedback! Send us a text message!
Workplace culture is how your people feel on Sunday evening about going to work on Monday morning.
That's not a 100% accurate description of culture - but let's not let being pedantic get in the way of a critical message for leaders. The reality is that most people want to do contribute and something meaningful with their lives. The second reality is that some workplaces give them that opportunity, while others kill the buzz!
How your people feel on Sunday evening is an excellent measure of the impact your workplace culture and your leadership has on morale and engagement - which flows through to results and productivity.
In this episode we unpack the key drivers that determine how you and your team arrive at work after a weekend or a holiday. Do you drag in miserable at the reality of another week of grind, just hoping to endure for another pay period? Or do you bounce in excited at the prospect of working with a team that energises and achieving something meaningful?
Whether it is the way you feel about returning to work, or the way the team you lead feels, there are four things to address:
1. Whether the work is still meaningful - has it become stale or stopped being a challenge?
2. Gratitude - have you, or your team, stopped appreciating the opportunities? Have you started taking them for granted?
3. The leadership style that you - or your team - are exposed to
4. The team dynamics that you and your teamwork amongst
In the pod, we look at practical actions you can take for each of these factors.
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Got a question for the Podcast? You can drop us a voice message via instagram or email us at: theculturenerds@reallearning.com.au
Thanks to our Podcasting producer, Josh at Deadset Podcasting for all his work behind the scenes.
Thanks for listening!
Before we get into today's episode, we want to acknowledge the privilege of living and working on Aboriginal land and we pay our respects to the elders, past, present and emerging. Hello, listeners, and welcome to our final episode for 2023 of Authenticity Transforming Workplace Cultures. I have here with me my co-host, simon Tyson. Welcome, simon.
Speaker 2:Thank you, kirill Lee, and I am excited about taking some time off over Christmas, but I'm equally excited to be here and record this podcast and looking forward to next year, which is the subject of today's episode, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we've been talking about, I guess, what our plans are for next year and some big goals that we've set and how we're really excited. We're really excited to spend some time with our family and have some downtime, because it's been a really crazy hectic finish to the year, but that we're really excited to jump back into it and really get moving with some of the ideas and the plans and the goals that we've had, and we had a discussion then about that. It's often not the way everyone feels at this time of year or when there's holidays in general. We were talking about a quote.
Speaker 1:Not when it's 5pm, not when it's 5pm, when it's 8.30am, when you turn off the work. There was a quote that we saw about six to twelve months ago and it said culture is how your team members feel on a Sunday night about Monday morning, and that is pretty much what today's episode is about. How do your team members feel about this end of year approaching and the new year starting? And regardless of what industry you're in because we're mindful of not everyone gets a complete shutdown period. So, whether you are in an industry where you just get your main public holidays, or whether you actually have a shutdown period, how do you feel as an owner or an executive? How do you feel as a leader, a manager? How do you feel as a team member coming in, are you crawling to the finish line and just on the brink of burnout and just need that break, or are you really excited for the break and really excited, or are you somewhere in between that?
Speaker 2:And just to be 100% clear for our listeners, it's actually not a good definition of culture, but it's a bloody good, provoking question to think about what your culture might feel like to people. So, to go back to the quote it said and I think you forwarded something to me on Instagram and I loved it it said culture is how your people feel on Sunday night about coming to work on Monday morning. And, as I say, that's not what culture is. It's a measure of the outcome or the results of culture, and I just wanted to clear that for our listeners who have heard us define culture differently. But it's a really good, thought provoking question how do your people feel they're looking at the Sunday they get to Sunday night, they're probably sitting down with the family, about to have a quiet evening, and are they going? Oh, I can't believe another weekend's gone so quickly and I've got to go back there again or are they going? Gee, well, it was nice to have a bit of a break and I'm fresh and I'm excited about some things at work tomorrow.
Speaker 2:And, to be clear, if you and your people are desperately unhappy to be taking a break over Christmas, that's a problem in itself, but if you're, if you're thinking I can't believe I've only got 10 days or four days or whatever it is and then I've got to come back to this place. If your people are feeling like that, it's a problem, and I would love to see the leaders listening to this. If they feel like that, or if they know some of their people feel like that, what are you going to change? Because how likely are you to get high performance? How likely are you to keep those people? Have retention of good people. If that's how they feel, if they drag their sorry bums back into work on 3rd of January or whatever day they come back, I don't think it sets them up for a very good year.
Speaker 1:It's an interesting question though, isn't it? Whilst we can agree that it isn't the best definition of culture. It is an interesting question that perhaps leaders can ask their team members how do you feel on a Sunday night about coming to work on Monday morning? How does Sunday night feel for you Like? Is it Because I know, some Sunday nights we all wish the weekend could go longer, because we've had a great weekend and we've had a really great time. So is it absolute detest for the following morning? You know, is it just oh, I just don't want to go back there. And do you think that you can get an honest response out of people if you ask them that?
Speaker 2:I think that's the thing, isn't it?
Speaker 1:And you know what would that look like, what would that conversation look like?
Speaker 2:I think the problem that we have is that the people who are most dreading coming back to work are probably feeling least safe, least happy, least comfortable and at least likely to speak up. And I think there's a massive difference between someone getting to Sunday night thinking, gee, it was a great weekend, I wish there was another day. Yeah, that's great, that's fulfilling, that's. You know, we all want to do that. We all want to love where we are and what we're doing. There's a very big difference between that and going over the weekends over. It may not have even been a very good weekend, but it's better than the rubbish I have to put up with when I go back tomorrow.
Speaker 2:So I think managers, sometimes they asking the question is great, but sometimes they just have to observe. Sometimes they have to be that fly on the wall, sometimes they just have to listen to conversations. If people are dragging in going another day, another dollar and that language, it's telling you that's the tip of the iceberg. It's telling you what's going on underneath. If they're walking in bounding in with energy because of something they're excited about working on, or the team they work with, or whatever, then that's also telling you something. Either way, it's the tip of the iceberg. We might only find that stuff out by being the fly on the wall, by observing, by listening, because people who don't feel safe are never going to tell you that they dread coming to work. They're just going to tell you what they think you want to hear, so they can get on with being miserable while they look for something else.
Speaker 1:So if we have a leader listening to this discussion we're having at the moment and that is them they go. Yep, that's me. What's your advice to them, simon?
Speaker 2:I think the first thing is to be really honest and ask yourself with yourself, with yourself, stop kidding yourself. I almost used another non-kid-friendly word there and we all know what it is it's a great Australian word. But stop kidding yourself and this will magically get better, because it won't get better unless you change something. So I think you need to ask that question what could I change to make this better? And what you need to change depends upon the why. So if it's that the job's got stale and boring, that's pretty simple challenge yourself. You need to find a way to make the job exciting or find a way to do a different job. I mean, that's what it really comes down to. If it's because of, if it's maybe internal, so if you've lost that sense of gratitude, if you've got a sense of entitlement, then you've got to take a really strong look at yourself, because no one's going to solve that unless you do. If it's because there's a toxic environment around you, that you've got a manager who doesn't treat you well, then you've only got a few choices. You can either have the conversation with them, which feels risky, or you can silently go about looking for something else, or you can just keep putting up with it and, honestly, that's in order. I've listed those in order. The number one thing to do, as risky as it feels at the time, is to talk to the manager who makes it. So I'm talking to a manager who's got a more senior manager who makes the environment unpleasant. You've got to have that conversation because if you don't, it will not change, and then you are left looking for something else or just putting up with stuff.
Speaker 2:One of the best ways I think we can give ourselves a reality check. What people do is they put up with rubbish one day at a time, and what I mean by that is if you were working for a really toxic manager and I said to you you're going to be in exactly the same position in six months time or 12 months time you'd go absolutely no way. That's unacceptable. I can't live another year or six months of my life like this. I'm not putting up with that. Something's going to change.
Speaker 2:But today I might think, oh, I can't cut face it today, I'll do it tomorrow. And tomorrow I go oh, it's too hard, I'll do it the next day. And the next day they're off at a meeting, so it's not a good time. So I'll put her off, and so what we end up doing is putting this off one day at a time for six months. But if we're really honest with ourselves and say I'm going to be feeling exactly the same way in six months as I do today, then it's completely unacceptable. So be really honest with yourself and say that's my reality. If I put her off one day at a time for long enough, my reality is going to be the same in six months and unless I choose to change it, then nothing will change. One final thing, and I know I've gone off on a bloody rant with you, so I guess just one final one for the year. Well, actually, I probably.
Speaker 1:I feel like I've got another part of my question yet, sorry.
Speaker 2:I'll probably fit another rant in later in the episode, so I shouldn't say it's the last one for the year. One other thing if it's the team that you're managing that makes you feel that way, if you just feel so frustrated by their behaviour, by their lack of performance, et cetera, have a look at yourself and I know I'm throwing all this back to you as the leader, but we always use that phrase when something isn't going as we expect it to. The first thing a leader should do is ask what's the father of leadership? So they may not be behaving or performing as you would like them to, but is that because you're avoiding those conversations? They may be behaving in ways that you don't like, but is that because you're an overly directive and controlling leader and that's their reaction to it? So look at what's creating that and ask yourself, when I go back to work next year, what could I change in my leadership style? That might create different responses from the team I lead, and, yes, it might create some uncomfortable ones, because if you're avoiding tough conversations and you start to have those awkward conversations but do them respectfully some people will object because they've got used to you not doing it.
Speaker 2:So if I could just summarize that whole rant in just a few words. I think it comes down to is it because you're stale? Is it because you've lost gratitude for what you do? Have you become a bit self-entitled? Is it because you've got a manager who's making that environment uncomfortable or unpleasant for you? Or are you just completely frustrated by the team you lead? And I think the response has got to depend upon which one of those it is Now. Having said that, it may well be a combination of those things, so it's a great time for reflection end of year, which I know we're going to talk about in an episode probably between Christmas and New Year. Just to clarify for our listeners, we're recording this on the 22nd of December, when a lot of people will be about to go. Maybe they're at work for the last day, maybe they can't wait for lunch to have a couple of final drinks and then dart home early. That's the sort of context of the day we're on.
Speaker 1:So if our listeners are thinking now, okay, well, that's not me, but I can see some behaviors in my team members. I can see some team members that come in of a morning and maybe you say good morning to them and they grunt, or maybe they're just generally unhappy with being at work, or there's some poor performance issues which have made you think maybe they are stale or maybe they don't want to be here. What's some suggestions? I laugh because I think we might be in for another rant listeners. But what are some suggestions that we could give to people that maybe to our managers and leaders, who may be thinking you know, I think maybe I've got some people like this in my team, or what, if even worse, for our leaders? What if I have these people in my team and I don't even know that they're feeling this way?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and look, if you've got people in your team and you don't know you're feeling that way then, and you've got people who feel that way and a number of them, then you haven't got your eyes open, because it will be indicated by things like behavior, like performance, like all those scrubfires that, as a leader, you have to put out, and the scrubfires don't occur without some fuel. There's something going on there. So if this is happening and you're not aware of it, then you're either ignoring the signs or you're normalizing the signs. You're going oh, this is people. People behave like that. No, they don't. No, they don't.
Speaker 2:People, generally speaking, want to come to work and do great work and go home happy. That's you know, and I'm over simplifying there. But if you've got a lot of people who do what they have to do and then drag home as soon as they have, as soon as they can, that's not normal. So that's a response. Another phrase we use a lot is there actually aren't that many exceptionally good or bad people out there in terms of being a team member, being an employee. It's just people responding to the culture and leadership they're exposed to, and we know that that's true because we've all been a really good performer and we've all been a bad performer at various times when we've been in different cultures and leaders that I'd invite you to do that reflection Think about a time where you were not your best self and you were probably working for a leader or working in a culture that led to that, and you've probably been a great version of yourself and you've probably been working for a leader or and or working in a culture that facilitated that. So those things don't happen by chance.
Speaker 2:If people are dreading coming back to work, don't kid yourself that it's because people hate work. It's people hate this work. That's why because people actually like work If they could go on a cruise to the Bahamas or do work, they're going to go to the Bahamas because they do like that better. But people want purpose, they want meaning, they want to do something that makes them, it gives them that sense of accomplishment and achievement. So we need to stop kidding ourselves that it's just a normal human reaction. It's not, and when people are doing work that is meaningful for them and gives them what they need, they do want to be there. They are excited about being there. So that's the. That's the first thing. So there was another round. I think I've probably got another one in me Be disappointed if you didn't.
Speaker 1:I said we'd be disappointed if you didn't.
Speaker 2:I think once we get that mindset out, you know that we say no, I've got to accept that it's not normal for people to feel that way. Then I think we come to so why is it happening? And you know what? I reckon it's the same things that we ask managers to reflect on. Have they become style? Are we not stretching people? Are they bored with their jobs and going, oh yeah, what's in this for me, what's? Why would I go back and do more of this over and over again? So we need to stretch them.
Speaker 2:Or have they become self entitled and have lost gratitude for the opportunities they get in, which would in which case, we might need to have some honest conversations that are uncomfortable? Or do they work for manager Look in the mirror, managers who has a style that makes them resentful, that makes them feel that they aren't valued, that makes them think that they aren't treated as as competent, clever people? Or Do they work in a team that's toxic, where honest conversations aren't had, where conflict is buried and becomes tension and people have that sick feeling in their stomach of, oh, it's just awful working merits. They use the word toxic Again. I don't think we need to look at different answers for why a leader would feel like this versus why their team feels like this Same questions, and our response has got to be based on the answer to that question.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that's some great reflection and tips for our leaders to be thinking about over the next week or so of leave and, I guess, transitioning to the new year. I was thinking, though, Simon, while you were talking and you said our leaders might want to reflect on how they can change some of their leadership styles or what their team might need from them, that our new format of Plenty in 20 might appeal to some leaders who might be looking for some different ways to adapt their leadership styles.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah. So Plenty in 20 is our free punchy 20-minute online workshops that we've run for the last six months. People love them because they're pure content. There's one small marketing message in there and we're talking 15 seconds and they're strictly 20 minutes so that leaders are able to fit them into a time-pressured day, and they're full of great content. So I'll let you tell the listeners what the development there is.
Speaker 1:We were running them monthly and they were 20 minutes on the second Tuesday of the month. But when we had a discussion, we thought, you know, not everyone's available at that time. They weren't recorded, we didn't send them out and we thought how can we make this available so that busy people can have access to this? So what we have decided to do is we are transitioning the same content, same amount of time, but there will be a new platform that this is offered on, where you register in the same way, but you will have access to the recorded format and you'll also have access to the back catalog so that if you have missed a prior one if you say you join us in February and you miss January's, or you join us in March and you want to see January and February's, you will have access to them and they'll be released monthly. They will be released on the same day every month and people can log on and view them and enjoy the content that we're going to be sharing.
Speaker 2:On demand when they want to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, on demand, and a much more user-friendly way to be able to view, whether you view it in your own time or at lunchtime, or if you're someone that catches public transport to and from work. It's just we feel that we understand how busy life gets and that committing that time during the day can often be hard, so we want to remove that barrier for everybody.
Speaker 2:And the other exciting part of that is that when you register in January, or now for next year's, next year's plenty in 2020, you actually register for the full series of six for the first half of the year and don't have to do that individually for each one, which is yeah, so previously you would have to register for each topic, but we're going to release six month blocks of, so you register.
Speaker 1:You register for the entire six months. You'll get an email when the new content drops, once a month, and it's up to you as to whether, where you view it and how you view it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, caroline. Just in the spirit as we head off, we have and now this is classic of our team we love our work, we're excited about what we do and at five o'clock tonight we're going to jump online and have an online drink together, because we're all a bit spread out, so we're going to have a drink together and then we head off and we'll do. We just work when we want to, really over that Christmas period and early January, and when we're sort of busy doing something else, we do that, and when we feel excited about doing some work, we do that.
Speaker 2:What is it that excites you about coming back to work next year? Because I think that we can both genuinely say that we will love time with our families and away from work, but we'll actually miss work and the excitement of some of what we do and we'll both come back to work whenever that is full of energy to do it. Now I think I'm reading that correctly. But what is it that will excite you about coming back to work other than hanging out with me? Yeah, I'm probably not a superstar.
Speaker 1:Almost. For me, I think we've had a year where we have learned a lot this year and, when we reflect on, some things we have tried and launched have worked really well. Some things that we've tried haven't worked so well and have not perhaps brought us the return that we wanted. And so in doing that, we've set some pretty big challenges for next year and some big goals, and it does mean that we are going to juggle not more work, but we're going to juggle a little bit more of potentially what we outsourced between us. And I think that that presents itself with a real challenge. And for me it's a little bit of determination, because I just I want it to work so bad that I'm just so determined to get in and get that strategy happening and kick some goals and achieve some really good things. So for me it's the challenge of executing what we've said we're going to do.
Speaker 1:So the past month to six weeks has been. You know, you came to Aubrey and we caught up and we had a couple of days where we just nutted out everything and how does this work, what doesn't work, and it was pretty draining really, like I know at one stage you looked at me and you said oh, you're done. I can tell by the look on your face you're just about done. But it was good because we just we got everything of. You know what's working, what's not working, what could we do, what's possible, what's not possible. You know where do we want to concentrate our efforts on? And you know really great things like the changes to plenty in 2020 evolved Some things we just thought, you know, we're just going to let that go.
Speaker 1:That's just not what the priorities going to be, but there's some really exciting things I think that we are going to we're going to do and that we will achieve next year. And for me, it's just a lot of these past four to six weeks has been that strategy and getting it ready to implement. So for me, it's just let's get into it. Let's, let's jump in and swim.
Speaker 2:And for the leaders out there that are listening to this, I'd love them to hear and this is the fly on the wall stuff I talked about before I'd love them to hear what was between the lines there. So the sense of purpose, that's that sense of purpose, like I know what we want to achieve and I'm excited about achieving that. So do you people have a sense of purpose? Notice the ownership, the absolute ownership, of this project that I'm driving the lot, yeah, and, and we'll drive a lot of those together, but it's your sense of owning something and feeling responsible for something and knowing that it's going to make a difference and lead to really good outcomes, not just for us as our business but for the people we here to serve. Yeah, listen to those things, listen to that between the lines and ask yourself the question.
Speaker 2:That was a really practical demonstration of all that stuff I ran it about before. Because if your people don't have that that passion, that excitement, the purpose, the ownership, the, the sense of contributing something meaningful, of, of feeling satisfied that my life's actually worthwhile, because I'm, I'm doing something with my time that makes a difference If they don't have that, that's a problem. So I'll tell you mine and I'm look, I'm slightly hurt that you didn't mention me amongst that, because you spoke for about five minutes and didn't say the word Simon once, but anyway, we there was a lot of we plan this and we're going to achieve this, Sorry.
Speaker 2:I may spend the Christmas break having some.
Speaker 1:You want specific.
Speaker 2:So, for me, I'm so excited about many, I'm so excited about the team we work with, the energy that comes from working in that team and it it gives me energy rather than drains my energy. And that's another really good question for leaders out there Is that the experience people having the teams you lead as a leader? Is that the experience you have? Do you have an energy deficit after you interact with the team or do you actually feel like you've been recharged and that's the energy that comes from working with that time. It's not all sugar and rainbows all the time, but the vast majority of the time our team is wonderful and it fills me with energy.
Speaker 2:So I'm excited about that. I'm excited about what we're trying to achieve. I'm excited about why we're trying to achieve it. And again, if your people don't know why what they do is important, then that's gonna suck the energy out of them and they're not gonna come to work full of zest. So think about those things, leaders, as you head off to christmas. I hope you have a wonderful break, I hope you come back full of energy and I hope you come back ready to make sure your people have that same experience before we go here.
Speaker 1:I believe there was a did you want to know, since I said all that nice stuff about you, can I open my christmas present now?
Speaker 2:Christmas present is a gin and tonic at five.
Speaker 1:I'm joking, I'm. Yes, it's a little bit sad that we're signing off for the last time of authenticity transforming workplace culture. I'm not gonna be aware that this is the last time we'll be airing this version of the podcast.
Speaker 2:Come on, I can see a clock out here, so keep the right.
Speaker 1:We are sadly signing off for the last time with this name, but we are really excited in the new year to be launching a new name with some new branding. It'll be the same brand to people that you listen to Most episodes, yes, but it is a new name and some new branding and some exciting new ideas that we're bringing to the podcast. So stay tuned. We will be releasing a little teaser over the next three week two to three weeks and we look forward to probably not even that much, probably over the next couple of weeks, because we will want to Get our first episode out early in the new year well, I'm just looking forward to that drink at five o'clock tonight with the team, while we work out what the heck the name actually is.
Speaker 1:Well, we don't know what the name is. It's what I suggested.
Speaker 2:Of course, I think I'm just listening.
Speaker 1:happy christmas, terry very christmas, merry christmas and thanks for fantastic you. We love the feedback we receive from everyone who listens and if anyone has any questions or if you've listened today and think I really, I really just like some hints or tips on where to start of anything we spoken about, please head to our website, reach out to us via the contact us page. We are really happy to really engage with any of our listeners with any hints or tips we can share.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I hope you have a great christmas, look forward to that new year and I always get the happy christmas and merry new year and I'm not Like me, feel it so dangerous so you open the ring on the second day.
Speaker 1:It's just like you in twenty four.